Monday, February 16, 2009

Re: Zero Population

I read the post about Al Gore's documentary a few days ago and decided that I couldn't let it go without putting my $0.02 in. I typed up this response but it ended up being really long, so I just decided it to post it here. I hope I don't offend anyone!

I'm not sure how much overpopulation has to do with climate change, but I am fairly convinced that it is an important issue facing the world today. John (they guy I'm dating) is working on a masters degree in global health, so we end up talking about issues like this a lot, and he has helped me understand this one from a wider perspective.


First of all, overpopulation is not a problem in the US and other rich countries, especially France--where the population is actually decreasing. (By the way, I haven't seen the documentary. Was Al Gore suggesting that population control be implemented in the US?)

Many babies born in the US are welcomed into the world by loving families. Even when there is an unwanted or teen-age pregnancy, or a baby born to a very poor family, the baby will have somewhere to go, where she can at least receive the bare necessities of life.

Babies born in poor countries don't have it so good. For example: in Asia or Africa, there may be a village of 100 people, and only enough resources to nourish 50 people. What would you do? Feed 50 people and let the others die? Or feed all 100, leaving them all malnourished so that eventually most of them die? And if you decide to only feed 50, which 50 do you choose?

In poor countries in Africa and Asia the population is growing out of control. Sometimes parents will have lots of children to help run the farm. If they have 14 children they will expect 7 to die, leaving them with 7 to run the farm. But when every family does this, the population grows so much that the resources in the village dwindle, and pretty soon there is no more land to farm. Families move (because they have to), going to places where they can't speak the language, and have no way of earning.

In the world today, One billion people live on less than $1 a day, and two billion live on less than $2 a day. In India something like 49% of the children are malnourished. There is just not enough food for everyone. In many African countries, there are no roads, no money, lots of violence, no sanitary drinking water, unstable (if any) government, etc. Just lots and lots of people who don't have food, water, shelter, or safety.

In these places, women are having children left and right, the population is increasing, and the resources are dwindling. Not only are the people malnourished, their opportunities for education and employment are slim. Many girls in these poverty-stricken overpopulated countries end up as prostitutes (and some of the boys too). Parents in the poorest villages in Asia are often deceived into selling their children into slavery as camel jockeys, fisher boys, beggars, house maids, soldiers, and worst of all--prostitutes. Here is one article about it at TIME magazine online. (I read somewhere in this article that there are at least 60,000 child prostitutes in Thailand, though estimates go as high as 200,000.)


Do these things make God happy?


Speaking for myself, I don't exactly know what God is thinking or planning for the Earth's future. But I cannot in good conscience believe that the problems stemmed from overpopulation are of no concern to us.

So, what is the solution? It seems there are two options. The first solution is that we (the rich) do our best to help the poor. What do you suggest? Does anyone know how we can get clean water, food, jobs, education, and medicine to 3 billion people?

The other solution is that we do what we can to support the implementation population control.

I am worried that a lot of us, when the term "population control" is mentioned think of strict governmental laws eliminating your right to choose. I assure you that world leaders are not planning to use force as a means to cure the population crisis. All they are doing is giving people OPTIONS.

Let me explain. Overpopulation in poor countries is due to things like poverty, gender inequality, and unavailability/lack of knowledge of contraception. In many countries (due to economy, culture, religion, or what-have-you) women do not have control over their reproductive systems. Many do not even know what birth control is, and if they did, have no access to it.

Also, women in these countries are often not allowed to make their own decisions concerning their reproductive systems. They are required to have sex with her husbands whenever the husband wishes--often resulting in pregnancy. The woman has NO say in the matter and I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the husband doesn't care.

When Iran, Vietnam, and other Eastern European countries were ruled by communism, contraceptives were free. The availability of these resources stunted population growth. After communism, contraception was no longer free and abortions sky-rocketed. With free contraception there were less abortions and less children. Today Iran requires all couples to enroll in family planning courses before a marriage license is issued. In the US something like 62% of women of reproductive-age use birth control in some form.

Studies are showing that when women and men are given reproductive rights, they usually choose to have less children. Teaching people to have only the number of children they have resources for is the primary goal of population control. And apparently it is also a goal of the LDS church: "Decisions about birth control and the consequences of those decisions rest solely with each married couple.... Husband and wife are encouraged to pray and counsel together as they plan their families. Issues to consider include the physical and mental health of the mother and father and their capacity to provide the basic necessities of life for their children." (taken from
lds.org)

The governments of poor countries haven't been able to do anything about population growth because they don't have the knowledge or the money. Organizations such as the
UNFPA, FHI, and other NGOs are getting into areas that have high fertility rates and helping governments provide development and reproductive rights to men and women. An agency such as UNFPA will bring experts to an area, provide funding for and train local people to run family planning programs.

Whether LDS or not, millions of children born in Asia and Africa are not being provided with the basic necessities of life. As far as I understand it, population control through family planning and gender equality fits RIGHT IN with God's plan for us. As governments and other agencies provide women and families with options about their reproductive activity, the problems associated with overpopulation will be significantly reduced.

17 comments:

  1. I appreciate the education. You're right, I tend to interpret these kinds of issues from the viewpoint of what I see in my own neighborhood (also I look at things in an abstract way, using a simplified, manageable model).

    When I was on my mission in Germany, a couple of high school buddies (not LDS) visited me in Frankfurt and we went to see the Henniger Beer Tower. I told one of my friends, if we took all the resources wasted on alcoholic beverages and redirected them, we could feed the hungry nations of the world (I didn't really know the math of that). He replied, "Yes, but would we?"

    I think we've got 1) the environmental scientific issues--is there potentially enough food; is the earth warming because of human activities? and 2)the sociological, political and distribution issues which seem to be what you are discussing (in a compelling way). I think in this realm, world history paints a very sad picture. Thank you for your post; I am interested to hear others' reactions and learn from a discussion.

    p.s. Also, there is the issue of a pressing moral situation like this one being co-opted by people for another ideological purpose, which can make very difficult to sort out.

    ReplyDelete
  2. In his later addendum to his original documentary, Al Gore was talking about strides made in population control in the United States, if that answers that question. I don't know if he talked about the poorer countries.

    And yes, I agree that it is a complicated issue. As I mentioned, I definitely agree that the mismanagement of resources in poor countries is a grave problem in terms of growing populations. Educating people and making contraceptives available hopefully can and will make a difference! I know that people aren't likely to solve all the world's problems by getting "clean water, food, jobs, education, and medicine to 3 billion people" but I really wish that we could.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I wanted to add that one of the reasons that what Al Gore said ruffled my feathers was because I feel like people in the USA have a certain attitude toward people who have "too many children"-- have you ever felt that from anyone? Read the following story on my sister-in-law's blog:

    http://jklmno-rowbury.blogspot.com/2007/11/dont-know-what-to-say.html

    That kind of attitude is what makes me sad. Like in Saturday's Warrior, too :) (I know it's a silly movie!!!)

    Again, though, I understand that issues are very different in other places. Thanks for your thought-out response, Bow.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Yes... I think my feathers get ruffled in both directions. :) In't that a great place to be. I've had people telling me it's morally outrageous that my mom had 6 kids. (of course the standards response is, which of my brothers and sisters do YOU think I should give up?)

    But there is a real problem in the case where choice is limited and education is nonexistent. A woman from any country and in any situation does not want to keep going through the pain and difficulty of childbirth, the emotional and psychological bonding process with a baby that is so draining and also redeeming at the same time, just to see her children starve. I believe passionately that there are many women out there who have no hope and no idea about how to elevate their situations and their lives from their situations of misery and pain.

    The two girls we're adopting from Ethiopia came from such a situation (not totally, but kind of). Their birth mother is dying of Aids. She can no longer care for her three daughters, and her husband has been gone, out of contact, for all she knows no longer alive even, for the last few years. In desperation she gave them to her own mother to take care of... but her mother is too poor to feed all three sisters adequately. So she gave the older two up to the courts system and the orphanage, because she knew it was the only thing she could do to save those two girls in her current situation.

    I wish I could send money to this grandma, medicine to this mother. I wish there were ways of getting the needed resources to every mother/child/family in these dire sitautions. WE do our very best, and there are hundreds of charitable organizations that mobilize such efforts (my husband and I contribute to these as much as possible). But in this case, poverty and disease have resulted in the breaking up of a loving family (hopefully we can also provide a loving family, and some support, and help healing happen.)

    I guess the point is to realize that every one of these situations involves real people with needs and feelings as deep and passionate as our own. On that note, the thought of millions of orphans all over the world dying of starvation is enough to make any "mother heart" burst into a million pieces... if we can't find something to do about it.

    Education like michele mentioned... and really seeking out the efforts that are being made that seem to be helping, and contributing to those... including education about family planning and funding for birth control to women who do not have those luxuries currently. :)

    Thanks Michele... I loved your post. I love all the information you put into it... and I look forward to meeting John, very much.

    ReplyDelete
  5. oh and just so everyone in the family knows... Aids is very hard to transmit from person to person. It's a misnomer that Aids is something that you catch easily, or that you're inevitably going to catch if you live in close proximity to someone. OUr girls both tested negative for Aids, Hepatitis, and other ailments... and they test them a few times to be sure. We'll test them again when they come here.

    Just thought I'd put that out there in case my last post raised some red flags/worried feelings...

    ReplyDelete
  6. I think you bring up a good reminder about real problems that we in the comfort of our carpeted heated homes don't think about very often. People suffering tremendously and being oppressed (whether it be the poor who do not own or control much if any resources, or women being treated like animals instead of companions) is evil and something I am sure does not make God happy in the least.

    I just don't know if I agree on what is causing this great suffering and oppression that is happening to half the world's population. Are these people suffering because there are too many people for how many potentially available resources there are or are they suffering because of how the resources of the world are managed? A mismanagement that seems to be primarily due to a lack of education as well as corrupt individuals ROBBING other people of rights and resources.

    I think the easy route is to say there are too many people, so let's reduce the number of people and there will be no more suffering. I don't see that route eliminating suffering, just as an attempt to shrink the size of the group that is suffering without trying to get rid of the bulk of the suffering.

    The hard route is to find a way to educate more of the world on how to manage resources better, to get those with so many resources to help those with so little more proactively, and to cast out the corrupt individuals that leach off those that are suffering.

    I think overpopulation and population controls can be such a heated topic because you have one side that feels that in order to truly value human life you need to limit the number of people so that each has a better chance at having a full life because more resources are available to each person. Then there is the other side that feels population controls devalue human life because it seems to infer that not every person is wanted or that not every person has the same value as another person. The later is usually how I feel about the topic, which is probably obvious by this comment (although I do not know if my perception is the right one, I just feel it is right now). Both sides, I think, care about people a lot so all those feelings are behind each stance. But which approach is right and which is wrong? And why?

    This comment has a lot of "I thinks" because I'm not sure about what is the best option. I know that the scriptures say to "multiply and replenish the Earth" as well as to "not run faster then you have strength." They also say that "the earth is full, and there is enough and to spare" but we his children are commanded to be "agents unto themselves" or in other words stewards over that which we have been given.

    What do you think Michele, of this comment as well as everyone else’s? I’m also curious what John thinks. You should get him to comment too! Maybe, we should even add him as an author…

    Good post.

    ReplyDelete
  7. P.S. "I assure you that world leaders are not planning to use force as a means to cure the population crisis."

    Aren't there some countries who are doing just that? Like China-- don't they have strict laws about how many children you can have?

    ReplyDelete
  8. It's true.. and people who have more than one child are heavily penalized. Some couples can apply to have a second child, but there are lots of strict requirements. This particular law is the reason why so many girl babies are available for adoption in China... boys are valued over girls, and so because couples are allowed only one, they give up their girls in the hope that their one child can be a boy instead.

    There was an NPR news story a while ago too about forced abortions in rural areas. It was ghastly and I never want to listen to it again, so I won't reccomend it... but China is a good example of why we should never allow our government to have the responsibilites for such personal decisions like that, nor the power to enforce them.

    There's such a large range of problems stemming from this issue, aren't there? For me, I think I rest on the thought that, I'll have as many kids as I can afford and take care of. And I'll try my level best to minimize my family's impact on the environment, and thus be environmentally responsible while raising as many kids as God has in mind for my family... I think of my kids right now and realize how huge these decisions are, because I would never want to have "not had" any of them. I think that two issues are at work here; women who are trying to decide between having more children or not, and women who really don't have a choice. Giving women the ability to have a choice I think would be pleasing all around.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Hi everyone, I'm sorry for not coming back here to comment, I have a hard time keeping up with this bloggy stuff. Plus I don't have an internet connection at my house right now so it's hard to stay up-to-date with what's going on here.

    In response to this--

    "I think the easy route is to say there are too many people, so let's reduce the number of people and there will be no more suffering. I don't see that route eliminating suffering, just as an attempt to shrink the size of the group that is suffering without trying to get rid of the bulk of the suffering."

    If a population of people is teetering on the brink of starvation, I don't see why teaching the men and women how to have only as many children as they can take care of would do anything but help.

    "The hard route is to find a way to educate more of the world on how to manage resources better, to get those with so many resources to help those with so little more proactively, and to cast out the corrupt individuals that leach off those that are suffering."

    I ask (Josh or whoever), what is your contribution to this solution? What can we all do to help this happen? If we and our leaders and our government are trying to figure out how to eliminate suffering by better managing resources, how will this happen? When will it happen? When will there be improvement?

    You've said here that there are two different ways to deal with it--but I think there are more than what we've talked about, and those of us who feel compelled must do our part to figure out how we can individually help. People in our family are helping through adoption, which is awesome.

    As for John, his brain seems to be too distracted to focus on blog stuff like this :) but he agreed to type something up really fast to respond to a few of the things people are saying here.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hi everyone, I haven't written on a blog like this before so I hope this makes sense. I am studying Reproductive Health and Population Studies in the Global Health department here at Emory University, so I have been exposed to many interesting things in the past while and hopefully I can share some of them with you today. For the most part I would just like to respond to a few of the posts people have written in response to Michele’s thoughts on population control.

    1st: I believe in free agency, and when it comes to things such as sex, abortion, family planning, etc., I think the woman is the best shape to make decisions about her own body. No, I’m not a crazy hippie who believes that everyone should have an abortion, but I do think that it is a good lead-in to your debate on population policy in China. China has what is sometimes referred to as a "one-child policy". In china it’s officially known as the “family planning policy”, and run under the family planning division in the federal government. I recently met several high ranking officials from the family planning division a few months back, and was lucky enough to chat and have dinner with many of them. I think the real questions here are 1) what is china’s “family planning policy”, 2) why is it there? and 3) how is it carried out in practice.

    1) The main idea of the family planning policy is to limit people to one-child. There are some exceptions. I found a few quoted here:

    “In most rural areas, families are allowed to have two children if the first child is female or disabled. Second children are subject to birth spacing (usually 3 or 4 years). Additional children will result in large fines: families violating the policy are required to pay monetary penalties and might be denied bonuses at their workplace. Children born in overseas countries are not counted under the policy if they do not obtain Chinese citizenship. Chinese citizens returning from abroad can have a second child.”

    As quoted above the fine that families receive depends on their income and is called “the social fostering or maintenance fee” often called a “family planning fine”. It is based on the income of the family and is basically a multiple of the family’s yearly “disposable income”. They also will be denied any government benefits, such as education, health care, etc. and it will be the responsibility of the families alone. The policy is old and wasn't meant to really come into this time period, so they have relaxed it quite a bit, and depending on where you live in the country (china is huge!) it varies. “Many provinces and cities, such as Henan and Beijing permit two "only child" parents to have two children.” So, the main idea is that it's dynamic, you can’t say that the same thing is happening all over china as it is now administrated on a provincial level.

    This leads to me to the next point--why do we do all this?

    2) The idea is that china was having massive poverty and huge population growth during the wars of the 50’s, and the Cultural Revolution in the 60’s and 70’s. If you remember your history, china was split in the 40’s and early 50’s. There were the old dynasties and the communists in the north. As I understand it, early in the 50’s or so they were extremely poor, had huge population growth, and were unable to sustain their citizens in the way they wanted. They started to promote having fewer children in the 50’s, but as Mao and others took over as the war progressed they became increasingly authoritarian. It was in the early 70’s they made a big push for it, but it wasn’t until 1979 when they really started what we know now as the population control policy. Since Mao and his protégé died and more lax chairman’s and officials have come to power the family planning control policy has also become more lax.

    The fee is intended to make sure that any family who has more than one child has the money to take care of the child, and is based on the assumption that the state does not have the funds to adequately take care of everyone. Instead of just given sub-standard efforts, or not providing for the poorest, they take the position that they will support one child in each family. The government cannot and will not force you to have only one child, but they will do their best to encourage you to have only as many as you can take care of. It is less of a matter of over-crowding as it is of scarce resources (money as well as environmental). If people strongly disagree with this policy, look at India. They have chosen to go another path, and it is a mess!! Any visit to china and India will have you marveling at how china did it. Human rights is an issue, and yes it can be argued that china should be forgiving there, but there is something to be said for getting things done. I’m not promoting one or the other (I like both countries)

    3) I guess I already kind of discussed this above .

    That’s a digression I guess to the message I want to share. It’s about free agency. So many people in china, and all over the world (especially india, africa, and elesewhere) know virtually nothing of basic biology, how/why you get pregnant, how you can prevent it, how you can reduce your risks of having malnourished children or mothers, reduce maternal mortality, and how to take care of the children in their first year or so of life. That is the reason family planning exists. Often it is the same people who say, "it's the fault of the couple for having sex, so if the women gets pregnant she should be denied an abortion", who also want to deny people proper sex education, proper access to birth control, proper care while they are pregnant (care for poor mothers), and care for both mothers/children when they are born. If they don’t say it directly, they say it by trying to take away funding for those activities. This is more important in developing countries, but even more depressing. Even armed with an understanding of why they are getting pregnant, contraception, and access to prenatal/postnatal care, they may be denied all of it simply because they are a woman, and must consult their husbands for permission in all cases. It is too often that women die at home or on the way to the hospital from obstructions that could be easily dealt with because her husband was not at home to give her permission to go. And that is in the best of circumstances, usually people have none of that, and live too far away to get any type of proper care even if they had days to arrive. The goal should not be, and I don’t believe is to STOP people or FORCE people not to have children. It is rather a message of FREE Agency, and china and so many others are betting that if people have knowledge and the ability to choose, they will choose what is best for their family and be able to provide for their families and live within their means.

    Lastly, I just wanted to respond to Josh who commented:

    “I just don't know if I agree on what is causing this great suffering and oppression that is happening to half the world's population. Are these people suffering because there are too many people for how many potentially available resources there are or are they suffering because of how the resources of the world are managed? A mismanagement that seems to be primarily due to a lack of education as well as corrupt individuals ROBBING other people of rights and resources.”

    There is a great development economist named Amartya Sen who wrote an outstanding book called “Development as Freedom” on the topic I’m writing about today, Free Agency, and which attempts to answer the question asked by Josh here. He recently won the Nobel Prize for his work and has been promoted to a cushy seat at the Economics department at Oxford. He postulates that it is really the mismanagement of the world’s resources that causes famine and so many diseases, if you are interested in the topic I would suggest a good read of his work, and several other essays he authored on famine and disease. I think it is well quoted that at least 9 billion people could limit the carrying capacity of the earth, but that’s assuming that it’s all equal, and we don’t come up with any other ways to make food. I don’t know what the carrying capacity is, but I don’t think it matters. It is imperative that we begin to do something to help those lower billions of people out in the world. One of the best ways is to help people understand how to plan pregnancies, therefore allowing mothers better more healthy lives (with better spacing), more healthy children (less resources to fight for), and the option to choose their family size as we are all so fond of doing here in the US (whether it be small or large). Of course, we would also hope people could work on convincing the 50% of people who are men to make those decisions together and leave their wives free of beatings and oppression. My prayer is that we can all do our best to straighten out the injustices and help our fellow brothers and sisters around the world enjoy the same freedoms so many of us take for granite each day.

    Of course I realize that no one, especially me, has a monopoly on knowledge, and that I could be wrong, so let me know if you see anything up there that doesn’t make sense.

    Thanks,
    John

    ReplyDelete
  11. Well John. Nice to meet you! I know we have already met, but it is nice to hear what you have to say. Perhaps we will have some meaningful discussions in the future. Don't be afraid of all us conservatives (for the sake of Michele), we don't bite much. Most of us are very interested in ideas- perspectives that we might not have thought of before. Most of us have lived pretty sheltered lives I think. And maybe some of us will actually learn something from you, or at least give thought to some new ideas. And maybe we can do the same for you! (I’m sure everyone here loves the fact that I appear to be speaking for everyone, sorry!). I look forward to more posts, and if we ever meet again in person (yes, I’m cautiously optimistic), I look forward to some real discussions and getting to know who you really are.

    ReplyDelete
  12. John-- Thank you for writing such a well-thought out statement on the issue. I learned lots of new things. That was a refreshing perspective on China's policies (from someone who obviously knows what you're talking about!). I still think it would be sad to live there and want to have more than one child, but to be dictated to by the government regarding such personal matters. I understand that China has their reasons for doing what they do, though. Again, thanks for taking the time to write on our little blog!!

    Michele--
    "I ask (Josh or whoever), what is your contribution to this solution? What can we all do to help this happen?"

    That's a good question. What should we do? For those of us who don't have the means to adopt, what are our options to help those who are suffering?

    Also, I hold to my earlier statements that my issue is those in wealthy countries like the U.S. who make people feel bad for wanting to have big families.

    As for other people in other countries where it's different, I've only lived in one other country in my life, and I can't begin to understand what it must be like for different people in circumstances much harder than my own. I haven't experienced it. I know that they need help, and I should try and do my part.

    ReplyDelete
  13. (Josh or whoever): Here is the answer: “spread the wealth around”! Okay, okay, I'm just kidding.

    ReplyDelete
  14. "I believe in free agency, and when it comes to things such as sex, abortion, family planning, etc., I think the woman is the best shape to make decisions about her own body."


    So well said.
    This is why I don't categorize myself as "pro life."

    But I don't categorize myself as pro choice, either.

    As to the gov't issues... I feel like there are problems with both. There's a problem with not educating people/giving them the resources they need/allowing full access to medical care and decision making to the person in question.

    But there is also a problem with government dictating such a personal decision (one that we as LDS people feel strongly about, too. :)

    I wish there were a middle ground that we could talk about.

    Jon (or anyone...) is there a middle ground? What cool ideas are out there?

    As to what people can do... adoption is not the answer. The best answer would be making sure the family has the food or resources or education or access to medical care or whatnot so they don't have to give up their precious children. This adoption thing is a tragedy. Our girls are going to be grieving the loss of their mother for the rest of their lives.

    IT is also a miracle because we get to be their family and have them in our family, but the fact that a mother had to give up her child because she was dying of an illness that is treatable in many areas of the world is a tragedy, it is unfair, it is unjust. So what we should be doing is trying to figure out how to get those things/resources to needy areas. tehre are several charities that work to raise the living standards of people in impoverished situations, some of which reside right here in the US. :) Anyway.

    This is fun.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Sorry, I know everyone is probably sick of this topic by now, but it's something I've been thinking a whole lot about lately. I'm just honestly trying to understand it, and see my part in it. I keep coming across people who are sooo extreme on the issue, and it kind of shocks me.

    Today I randomly came across a blog post about population, so I clicked on it. the blogger was discussing (and praising) what another person had written on the subject. Here is a quote from the article he was discussing:

    (He has just made the suggestion that everyone on the planet should not have children for five years)

    "And sure, a five year ban won’t fix all of this and it raises some questions as well—like how do we insure that year six won’t produce an influx of offspring?

    "So here’s my answer: Personal responsibility. A grassroots movement means we mean it. It means people having children in year six would feel shame and embarrassment at their unbelievable selfishness.

    "And yeah, if you are having children right now you are being selfish. You’re stealing. Stealing from the future. Stealing from the rest of humanity. Stealing from every living thing on the earth right now."

    Now, you may say that this guy is very extreme, and not to worry about what he is saying. However, I keep coming across this kind of sentiment! Over and over again! The idea that I am being selfish for being a mom.

    I wrote a comment on the blog discussing the article. I suggested that to save the planet, people should still have children, but should teach those children to take care of the environment, instead of leaving the child-rearing up to people who might not care as much about the welfare of the planet. I got an almost immediate reply that the problem is that there are just too many people on earth.

    *sigh*

    If there is anyone who isn't tired of this discussion yet, I'd love to hear your honest thoughts about this.

    ReplyDelete
  16. We need a story from Ron that helps us see some different perspectives of this issue. The tricky thing is, he would want to write it with the intention of us not knowing what he is writing about (really), and now people would know because of this posting!

    ReplyDelete
  17. Merrily,

    hearing that makes me angry. It is so full of assumptions. I mean, honestly, how *can* someone know, down to the square mile, how much population the Earth is capable of supporting.

    Telling people that they are unbelievably selfish for having kids is an example of someone casting stones from a perspective they don't really want to help others understand; it was a comment meant for those within their own tribe of philosophical belief. It wasn't meant for you... it was meant to be an assault on you to promote solidarity within the "tribe" of people who agree with the sentiment that particular blogger was expressing.

    But stones hurt. Make sure that you go seek solace in your own tribe... that's what tribes are for.

    What I wish is that more people (people like you, Merrily, who do such a good job of this) sought to build bridges between tribes. I'm sure each tribe could have something to contribute to the others. And, I'm not so sure we all disagree as much as we think we do, either. Maybe it's all just stone-throwing, to promote solidarity within our groups... and unfortunately, reifies itself until we think that we all irrevocably disagree and there's no possible way to build those bridges.

    I definitely think we should keep discussions like this going, and nobody needs to apologize for continuing it.

    ReplyDelete